Thursday, April 10, 2008

Arthur, they're paying a price for the country's record.

Pissed off Patricia has it exactly right. Where Iraq is concerned it's time to bring them home. She poses a rhetorical question with regards to Maliki's recent raid on Basra-

"If the Iraqis want to start battles on their own time schedule, against the advice of Petraeus, why must our military end up doing the dirty work?"
Why indeed?

The answer of course is that pulling out our troops is going to be difficult. Actually "difficult" isn't a strong enough word to describe it. It's going to be nye impossible.

I've spent the morning looking for a post I'd read off of one of the hundreds of sites linked off of Zaius' site which is now eluding me. The author of that very insightful post was able to identify the biggest source of the difficulty in bringing our troops home as the two competing narratives between Republicans and Democrats. (If this was you please speak up and I will link.)

In her analysis the Republicans continue to push the frame that we're in a global war and pulling our troops out of Iraq will be admitting "defeat." In contrast- the Democrats see the broader fight against terrorism in a much more complicated and, I might add, realistic context of economic, political and religious precursors.

In my opinion this analysis is dead on but it does leave us without a solution. But there's a perfect solution that the next Democratic president could employ to withdraw our troops out of Iraq which would leave the nattering nabobs of knuckleheadery on the Right speechless for a change: declare victory.

Use the occasion of your first State of the Union to announce we've resoundingly won the war in Iraq. Throw in the caveat that there might be some hick-ups as we turn the country completly over to the Iraqi armed forces but, as Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and George Bush are fond of saying: "democracy is messy." Make it clear that the troops are needed on another front in Afghanistan.

Once the troops are stateside then hand out medals by the bucketload. Have ticker-tape parades. Stage some photos of sailors kissing nurses. Give that asshole Betrayus a Medal of Freedom. Celebrate our victory over the insurgency at every public venue available.

Above all make it clear that anybody that questions the pullout of troops from Iraq is questioning their victory and their honor. We all know that nobody but dirty fucking hippies would question our troops honor.

Don't you think this would work?


Don Snabulus said...

It would work, but the problem is that nobody is going to do it. A tiny particle within me hopes a Prez Obama might be capable of leading as well as he speaks and thinks, but the truth is that the rest of the Dems aren't up to it.

Jess Wundrun said...

We won't leave until the last dime of corrupted money has been squeezed from the taxpayer.

That's why this is supposed to be a 100 years war.

And I respectfully disagree with your idea of honoring people like Petreaus. We didn't dutifully dishonor the republicans that brought us the Nixon administration and there they were 30 years later fucking everything up.

Dean Wormer said...


Yeah. It just sort of "feels" like we've missed the window for withdrawing. It's really strange how opinion, even among the progressive community, is often shaped in subconscious ways.


Petraeus is a dick. Don't get me wrong. I agree with you that much of what happens to pass as the Republican leadership in the last 30-40 years could stand to be removed from any vestiges of government and prosecuted.

I'm just trying to come up with a way to deal fully and directly with the argument that withdrawing the troops = losing. You and I both know there's nothing and no way to "win."

It seems to me that declaring victory and celebrating same would kick that argument in the nuts even though it would be fundamentally dishonest.

Dr. Zaius said...

I am honored that you would use my blogroll in your searches for information.

Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and George Bush are indeed fond of saying, "Democracy is messy." I think that this mess is going to have a negative outcome no matter how it is played out.

Sometimes a pleasant outcome is just not possible. (Just like Michael Jackson's plastic surgery - it is no longer possible for him to look human.)

Let's just grit our teeth and yank this festering tooth out as quickly as we can before lose any more American lives.

pissed off patricia said...

I really do like your plan. Saddam is gone and wasn't that one of the reasons for the invasion?

How many deaths does it take to constitute a victory? Enough is enough.

Randal Graves said...

I love the idea of using their own bullshit against them, but I'm with jess in that I don't think we'll be leaving for awhile, no matter who the next president is. Not that she is saying exactly that, but I am. Of course, we achieved victory in what, a few weeks? The rest is occupation.

And I know you know that, but goopers and sadly, too large an amount of the American people buy into militaristic symbolism far too easily.

Prove me wrong, Hillary/Obama, if you're lucky enough to actually be sworn in, start pulling out as quickly and safely as possible. Iraq is going to blow itself up now or later. Let's make sure it's not with any more Americans.

Man, that comment was all over the place. And I haven't even started drinking yet. ;-)

Dean Wormer said...


Sometimes a pleasant outcome is just not possible. (Just like Michael Jackson's plastic surgery - it is no longer possible for him to look human.)

Well said. A whole bunch of other Michael Jackson analogies apply to Iraq as well. It's not safe for children. Like Michael it seemed like a good idea at the time but we're left wondering what the hell we were thinking.

I think your dentistry analogy works as well. I just don't think we can get the kids to the dentist. That's why I'm trying to think outside the box here.


Indeed. I just want them home.


It's Friday morning and you're not drinking yet. Shame. :)

I'm trying to figure a way through the wall of bullshit the next president will face as they try to undo Bush's fuck up.

It's an acknowledgement that it WILL be hard to pull them out. Politically they're going to face a firestorm of GOP bullshit the second we begin the drawdown. The media will carry their water as they did in the run up to the war. As they're doing now in the run up to a war with Iran.

As you say - Iraq will be a bloody mess whether we're there or not so why put ourselves in the middle?

Such a sad, sad mess.

Swinebread said...

That POP gal is pretty smart ain't she!

Fran said...

Late to the party, but I will say this.

What is winning? Everything so far is lost, why keep sinking deeper?

I know, you agree. What is wrong with these f*cktards? I am so tired of death.

I just read somewhere that Americans don't like to lose. Don't those who actually still support the war, know that we have already lost?

Ugh. I have a headache and my battery is almost dead here.

Last comment of the evening... I am soooo behind on blog reading.

Dean Wormer said...


I think so.


I just read somewhere that Americans don't like to lose. Don't those who actually still support the war, know that we have already lost?

Yep. That's why I'm saying if we can't figure out what it takes to "win" this thing what's to keep us from saying we already "won" and bringing the troops home?