Monday, March 09, 2009

Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man.

Fran sums up an awful conversation she had with someone of a conservative bent over gay marriage. Lest we think that all conservatives all as much of a lost cause as that guy she posted a seperate discussion with a different conservative gentleman that went much better.

Fran's tale reminded me of a story about Mrs. Wormer. One of the things I love about Mrs. Wormer are her very impressive rhetorical skills. She's not someone you want to get into an argument with as she'll leave you tongue tied.

Several years ago (before kids) we volunteered to fight the first of many anti-gay rights ballot measures that the Oregon Citizen's Alliance but on the ballot. I have a vivid memory of watching Mrs. Wormer in a heated, but cordial discussion with a conservative Christian over this ballot initiative.

Mrs. Wormer dismantled each and every argument he threw at her, not by dismissing his religious beliefs but by confronting and even playing to them. You either believe in a God of compassion and love or you believe in a vengeful, angry God. You can't have it both ways.

She got this guy to admit he may be wrong which was a pretty amazing thing around such an emotionally heated issue. I'm pretty proud to be married to somebody like that.

11 comments:

Liberality said...

My husband always says that the gay marriage fight is a fake issue. While everyone is arguing over whether gay people can marry each other (in a free country you would think this would be a given but you would be wrong), we still have the rich making off with all the loot and we all slave away for their profits. Well hell yes I say. False flag indeed!

Don Snabulus said...

The art of articulating your argument respectfully when the blood is boiling is a difficult one. Important though. In fact, I wish I was better at it.

Liberality's and hubby have a point too. At a time like this, that debate seems like setting up a circular firing squad. The advantages of having the state recognize you aren't much solace if the economy falters and nobody is held responsible and all our hard work to get where we are in life goes down the toilet.

dguzman said...

Mrs. Wormer sounds like a great catch!

Lockwood said...

Second dguzman! I'm pretty good at marshalling arguments after the fact, but the skill of doing it on your feet, at the time of maximum frustration and passion is a rare one.

Distributorcap said...

mizwormer sounds like a keeper - 8-)

and can i use her when i need to negotiate ANYTHING

FranIAm said...

Well here I am stopping by an confronted with not one, but two links. I do thank you for your lovely comment on my post.

Ms Wormer sounds like one cool chick and very smart. Glad to hear that you have married up!

Mean God is so boring, what is up with all the people who seem to like that one????

Arkonbey said...

wow! I'd like to see her in action. Glad she's on 'our side' :)

I'm pretty smart and well-informed, but I'm a ranter, so I pretty much get beat up by those who are more articulate than me. Imagine I'm Andre the Giant getting defeated by Wesley...

Randal Graves said...

So that's why you lose every argument at home. ;-)

Übermilf said...

I need Mrs. Wormer to teach me her "less-bludgeoning, more-educating" method of discourse.

I'm getting too old for violence.

Dr. Zaius said...

...But can she cook a chocolate cake? ;o)

Dean Wormer said...

Liberality-

Your husband is a smart man.

don-

The art of articulating your argument respectfully when the blood is boiling is a difficult one. Important though. In fact, I wish I was better at it.

Me too. I can't help but lose my temper, especially about social issues where illogic is so often allowed to dictate people's positions.

dguzman-

Thanks. I think so.

Lockwood-

I'm not good at that either.

distributorcapny-

Absolutely. She loves talking deals.

fran-

Mean God is so boring, what is up with all the people who seem to like that one????

Totally. Why live in fear out of choice? What a sad life.

arkonbey-

Imagine I'm Andre the Giant getting defeated by Wesley...

To be fair Andre was used to fighting 10 men or more for charity events and such. :)

Randal-

Yes. That would be the downside to marrying someone good at rhetoric.

ubermilf-

That's why you have to hire people to perpetrate your violence when you get older.

zaius-

If it comes in a box.